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who's better Alice or Bella
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Bella Or Alice?
Alice
 58%  [ 7 ]
Bella
 41%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 12

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Ammy
Edward's Secret Lover


Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

feellikethenight wrote:
I think I just like Alice because even as a human she was completely unique. and everyone thought she was crazy. there are a lot of unexplored and explained dimensions to Alice.

Stephenie says that she is definitely not done telling the stories of these characters, and that hinted to me that she will write about the others...and i reeeeaaaalllly want her to.


I totally agree with everything you said about Alice, and that's basically the reason I like her. It's really weird, but for some reason, I find Bella to be a flat character, while Alice is more rounded. And Bella's the protagonist!

That's a bit of a tricky thought, though, because we discover more about Bella than Alice... yet Alice still seems to be the more rounded character out of the two.

That's just headache-making. I'm not going to go down that path again.
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Alice
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agrees with Ammy!! how can you critisies something you haven't even read?!!
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Izzy_The_Goddess
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to Alice: Okay, I just read my last post where I didn't know anything, so NOW I am going to do the whole comparition thing:

||BELLA}}

1) One of the most flattest characters I have ever read. She's supposed to be an average looking girl, but somehow attracts all the guys (Edward, Eric, Jacob, Mike, Tyler and a lot of others), with not that great looks and almost zero personality -- unless blandness is found to be sexy in that part of the country, then this is completely and utterly unrealistic.

2) A completely non-existant relationship with her parents. She cooks for her father Charlie, and that's about all. You can tell she considers herself superior to her mother, who really isn't that bad.

3) She's obsessed in supernatural beings. Why is this? Because she considers herself superior to all humans. Let's look at the facts; Mike likes her, so does Jacob -- but she completely rejects Mike while she's nice and hangs around Jacob, calling him "just a friend". And Jacob is a werewolf, Mike is a human... hmm.

4) Okay, I'll admit it, Bella isn't stupid. But she's no way mature for her age as Stephenie tries to tell us again and again, she's immature and childish, judging through her actions and rabid emotions. Jacob is more mature and he's three years younger.

5) She's in love with Edward, ready to die for him, to become a vampire for him, to put her parents and friends (if she even has any real friends who actually will die) in danger for him, but she won't marry him. Why? Because she's scared of what her mother will think. She obviously doesn't understand that her mother will be a LOT more ashamed and shocked at her when Bella actually turns into a vampire. Maybe Bella hasn't realised this, but her teenage emotions for Edward may be love, but love does not last forever, they WILL get bored of each other (after a 100 years) and she'll be wondering why she even became a vampire. Yet she devotes herself to Edward and say she'll do anything for him, BUT marry him, yet she still wants to become a vampire. She's not keeping HER side of the deal!

6) Trips all over the place, plays the damsel in distress to the most pretentious extreme and it may have seemed so unique and different from the beginning, but it's just getting boring when she's falling all over the place and complaining and stuff.

7) Is a weak person and has a weak personality, she is nothing without Edward. The entire story revolves around her ethics; You are NOTHING without your man, you let your man do whatever he wants to you, never argue with your man, let your man control you whenever he wants, you don't have a life until you meet your man. She lets Edward boss her around all the time - annoying!


That's enough for Bella...

NOW FOR ALICE:

1) Alice is okay. She's reasonable for a side-character, but I find her a bit boring. I prefer Rosalie, Jessica or Angela over her (I can't stand Esme), Stephenie tries her hardest to make her intriguing and cute for the reader (I remember a very, very, VERY obvious plot that Stephenie tried to plant into Twilight about Alice losing her memory).

2) She's reasonable witty, some of her lines in New Moon are okay, but I can't stand her when she says things like, "Oh you look sad... are you hungry? I forgot humans have to eat!"

---

Alice wins.
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Ammy
Edward's Secret Lover


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking over my own posts, and I can't believe how much I've changed in less than a year! I have no idea why I've changed, as well. But I think it may have something to do with my friend and her STRONG (like, burning, passionate) dislike of Bella. Bella really gets on my nerves now. She also doesn't deserve Jacob (slightly off topic, haha).

Just in response to your comments, though, Izzy:

1) Bella is actually quite boring. As for her appearance, the attraction Eric, Mike and Tyler felt towards her was adapted from Stephenie's own experience in college. When you're the "new girl" somewhere, guys will notice you more than the girls they’ve spent their entire lives growing up with. And in a town as small as Forks, I’m willing to bet that Mike and co. have seen their female counterparts at school go through all the various stages of childhood and adolescence. So when the new girl comes to school, she’s more of a mystery, and you don’t know her as the girl you played Kiss Tag with in grade 2, or the girl you went out with for a week in grade 6. Despite how bland a personality Bella has, I can understand why guys noticed Bella more than other girls. Think back to your own experiences.

2) What made me laugh in one of your earlier posts on SA was when you said all Bella does is “clean, cook, clean, cry, cook, etc” because that’s really what it feels like when you’re reading Twilight. I agree that most of her interaction with Charlie is when they’re eating food she has cooked for him. And although I don’t think she considers herself superior to Renée, I do agree that her mother is actually quite nice. She’s just immature. And that is why Bella has had to grow up fast, why she’s had to learn to cook (and apparently, keep cooking wherever she goes, haha) and take more responsibility.

3) I think Bella may just be the kind of person who truly is obsessed with the supernatural. She’s probably just fascinated by it. I wish she treated Mike better, but she doesn’t. He was there for her when Edward left, but she just didn’t want his friendship. Hmm. That actually makes me think that she considered herself about Mike, and I believe that she did to an extent. When she became friends with Jake, he was still a human, and he was… there, I guess. He was there and was sunshine personified.

4) I’ve met people my age who are more mature than Bella was in Twilight. But I do think Bella was mature. Just not as mature “for her age” as Stephenie told us. Maybe she was more mature than her peers when she was 14, but at 18, there’s plenty of people more mature than her. I don’t blame her for acting on her emotions. Everyone does that, and it just makes us human.

5) This is the one area in which I feel compelled to defend Bella. The reason she doesn’t want to marry Edward is because her own mother married at a young age, and Bella has grown up seeing the effects of this, and it has modelled Bella’s views on this completely. I don’t blame her for hesitating.

6) The clumsiness does get a little annoying at times, and at first it just seemed to make Bella that much more human and relatable, but now it’s becoming a little tiresome. I guess now we’re just stuck with it. haha. The clumsiness is part of her character and it shows in everything she does. And then again, it can be used as a plot device when needed. I guess that’s one good thing about it.

7) I don’t think those are Bella’s ethics, and she does stand up to Edward at times, demanding that he stop protecting her so much. When Edward is controlling at all the wrong times, it get really annoying. But when he’s serious about something (say, when there’s a pack of newly born vampires after her) and Bella stubbornly refuses to hide from the danger, then SHE gets on my nerves for not listening to smart advice.

As for Alice, it’s just her quirkiness that I like. She’s a pleasant change from the more serious and dark personalities of other characters in the novels. I would have liked to know her when she was a human.
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MarsGirl
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't really develop an opinion about Alice in Twilight, but Bella...ergh. Being with Edward made her spiral into self-consciousness way too much. (Yes, Bella, that "perfect, angelic, and godly piece of perfectly angelic godliness" of a vampire *does* love you. Stop whining how it can't be true and cook or something.)

So...I guess Alice.
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Izzy_The_Goddess
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wow, I never actually read this post...

Quote:
Bella is clumsy - She's admitted this herself in the books... I don't see how being clumsy makes her a bad person. Her hand-eye coordination skills simply aren't as good as others. Again, a cruel way of judging someone.

Bella is slow - Uh... what? She's slow compared to the vampires. How is that something that's bad? Cruel judging method...

Bella is sensitive - Yes, that's nice to know. Thanks for telling us. But how does it make her a bad person? Actually, Stephenie didn't want to make Bella the damsel-in-distress. She opposes misogynistic values and she even proved this by making Bella save Edward at the end of New Moon. You can guess what I'm going to say next: Cruel judging methods again...


You didn't think I was actually TRYING to be cruel when I said this? I don't find these points particularly important anymore, but I'm pretty sure Bella would have judged me right back - if she were alive - like she does to everyone else.

Quote:
Gutless - wth? wth? wth?


She doesn't have enough guts to fill-up the hole in a sewing needle. She's completely, completely and utterly weak. It's actually pretty depressing considering she is the female-lead. Compare her to Tally Youngblood(Uglies/Pretties/Specials), Kate Forrester (After the last death), Lyra Belacqua (The Golden Compass), Clarissa Fray (City of Bones), and that's onle a few - there are a lot of strong female leads out there, not strong as in stubborn and strong-headed, but strong in personality... even a shy person can be strong.

Quote:
Without-an-opinion - From which corner of the world did you pluck this string of hyphenated words? Without an opinion? Bella has her own opinion. E.g. She wants to become a vampire. That's an opinion. Another opinion? She recommended dresses for Angela and Jessica. That's an opinion. She thinks that Jacob is someone she could easily be friends with when she first meets him... that's an opinion. Please... have basis behind your points.


Haha... I can't believe I actually said that, I must have got really caught up in the argument and just began spewing random words out of my fingertips...

Quote:
Stupid - Gee, I don't think so. Bella is actually quite smart. If you wat proof, then I can tell you she was in the advanced placement program for Biology when she was in Phoenix. She also happens to know what she's talking about... such as the essay she wrote.


Haha, nice. Yes, I didn't know what I was talking about back then - but now I do. And I can officially say, she's stupid. Stupidity comes in many different forms, not because she was placed in some advancement program. Intellectual minds can usually make stupid mistakes. Such as:

Albert Einstein put his work ahead of his kids, wife and was also a total loser in school.
Cleopatra was idiotic enough to try being a female ruler during a completely sexist Egyptian age (and she was skilled in several different languages and subjects).
Marie Curie: Played with dangerous substances and chemicals during her spare time.
Aristotle: Ran into the streets naked, screaming, "EUREKA!"

Quote:
Self-centred - How so? She dotes on Edward. She loves her family very much. She even risks her own life to save her family. When Mike, Eric and Tyler are constantly approaching her, she DOES get a little frustrated. But how much more patience do you expect of her? If she was any more patient that that, you'd start criticising her patience!


...She loves her family. Full stop. And she doesn't love them very much. She saved her mother, because she had enough information to save her mother - anyone would, who didn't completely hate their mother. And I don't know, but there's a certain scene in Twilight where she's screaming at her dad about hating Forks and even used the line her own mother used when breaking up with him. Cruel. That aint love.

---

Yeah, sorry, I know a lot of time has passed since you posted this, but I decided to do this anyway, just to explain how I was thinking - now with the facts to back-up the claims.
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Ammy
Edward's Secret Lover


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from right now. And I agree with a lot of the things you say, but to a lesser extent. For that last point, however, I have to say that we all hurt the people we love. And when Bella shouted at Charlie as she was leaving Forks in Twilight, she really did feel terrible afterwards. I can relate to that and understand why she did that. Her world was falling apart and she'd just been told she'd have to leave Forks to escape from a vampire after her blood.

I think it took guts to face James like Bella did. She has a different kind of bravery to the heroines you're mentioning. It's not all that noticeable in her everyday words and actions, but if you take into account the bigger things she's done, I think she is brave in a certain way.

Although I don't find myself warming up to her all that much. *sigh*
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Izzy_The_Goddess
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I forgot about her facing Jacob. Yes, that was brave. I'll give her that.
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