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Lil
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*giggles more*


This is so funny! I'm with Izzy... Bella should DIE! That would be a great ending for the last book. Plus, it will mean that there won't ever be another one! At least, not based on Bella anyway.

But... Alas. We all know she won't. She'll either turn vamp or survive and stay human.

How awesome if she died, though?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Izzy_The_Goddess wrote:
This guy should be sitting on a rocking chair playing bingo.



...Best. Quote. EVER.

Seriously, I was in hysterics. Ah, the awesome.

I wouldn't mind if Bella died. Although she doesn't... I'm pretty sure, because she HAS the baby and everything. And Jacob imprints on the thing.

The whole situation with the baby sucking life force from its mother is so overdone. Rosemary's Baby, anyone? ha!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in the first book, there’s a scene where Alice has a vision of Bella dead. Yeah, I only remember this because I re-read the book today… yeah, that’s right. Actually I only picked it up because a glass of water fell on it and it got absolutely soaked (but readable), but anyway… speculation.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ammy wrote:


The whole situation with the baby sucking life force from its mother is so overdone. Rosemary's Baby, anyone? ha!


I watched a Stephenie Meyer interview last week where she talked about BD and such. She also said that all of her books are based on another book (or Shakespearian play i guess).

I forget what she said for Twilight, New Moon was Romeo and Juliette, Eclipse was Withering Heights (i think) and Breaking Dawn was based on two things Midsummer Night's Dream and she said the other one is a secret but with all this baby eating the mother's essence I feel that she did base part of the book on Rosemary's Baby.

All I could think when i heard that it was partly based on MSND was this book is going to be strange...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Eclipse was Wuthering Heights.

The only connection so far to A Midsummer Night's Dream is when Bella specifically says to Jacob, "This is MAGICAL. Having this baby is MAGICAL." Or words to that effect. Then she compares it to A Midsummer Night's Dream.

Maybe the book DOES take a turn for the worse (or rather, it gets even worse) later on. I wouldn't be surprised if fairies turned up and a new love interest came into the story.

Okay, I'm going to try something:
Lysander = Edward
Hermia = Bella
Jacob = Demetrius
This would work better for Eclipse.
But who is Helena????
....Nessi.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Excellent.

And I'll be Puck.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hated A Midsummer Night's Dream. Shakespeare is extremely over-rated, I can't even be bothered remembering the boring characters... or the stupid Jane Austen slash Shirley Barber storyline.

Eclipse just can't be compared to Wuthering Heights. Wuthering Heights is classic and Eclipse is horrible.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, well, I genuinely love most of Shakespeare's plays, but that's definitely a personal preference, and not the result of the hype he's been given for so long. A Midsummer Night's Dream was actually really funny, you know. And Jane Austen came around a lot later than Shakespeare, and her style & stories are COMPLETELY different... I have no idea who Shirley Barber is.

Wuthering Heights is pretty boring. I don't really like it, or any of the Brontë sisters' works. Yeah, whatever. Sue me. hehe. Eclipse is based on it. The situation with Heathcliff and Edgar. Because, really, Eclipse was just that, wasn't it? If you cut out the silly new vampires storyline.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, obviously Jane Austen came after Shakespeare but the whole romance thing going on in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" is very similar to her novels. Shirley Barber writes fairy stories. I enjoyed Shakespeare's "Macbeth" though, but it took me some time to actually get into the story.

I found AMND really boring - and random. The only thing I liked about it was the end; because it ended the overall horrible story.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was just supposed to be a fun comedy. Romantic comedy, you could say. hehehe. It's not random, either. There's fairies and a magical forest! Anything can happen with love potions. The story's hilarious.

I'm going to have to disagree with you again on the Jane Austen thing. The romance in A Midsummer Night's Dream? Not at ALL like Jane Austen's romances. It is completely and utterly different.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found the subtle jokes boring. The "I'm an ass" or whatever, the famous quote sort of had me missing.

The 18th-19th century romance seemed very Jane Austen-y to me. But then, I haven't read a JA book in a while.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hahaha, yes, when he gets a donkey head stuck on him.


Seeing as the book has already been released in North America, and it's coming out tomorrow in Australia, I couldn't be bothered waiting any longer. I've already read half the book, so whatever, right?

I look up Breaking Dawn on Wikipedia and OH. MY. GOD.
It gets even worse. Much, much worse. Although, that isn't really possible.
SO THE WHOLE THING IS JUST PLAIN SHIT! hahahahahaha, I am sadistically happy that it turned out this shit. Take that, obsessive fans!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I decided to check it up on Wikipedia as well.

The baby can walk, talk and hunt within a few days? ...Hunt? Yeah, that's not creepy.

So Bella gets Edward in the end. I actually feel sorry for Bella, she came into this story an innocent yet immature girl and left it as a monster. Tough luck.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The baby is everything we didn't want Eve to be.
It's just so creepy that Renesmee Carlie Cullen(hahahaha, I'll never get over that) is a superbaby... and that she convinces them to get rid of the treaty between werewolves and vampires so she can be with Jacob.
I hate that Stephenie did something so shit to Jacob. He deserves better than to be paired off with Bella's half-vamp daughter! What a cop-out.

I want to pretend Breaking Dawn never happened because... what was Stephenie on?!
The ridiculous conflict with the Volturi just makes an already-stupid book even stupider.
Bella being turned into a vampire is so... ARGH. I never realised just how much I didn't want that to happen until now. And how convenient is it that she can stay silent during the turning AND be remarkably in control of herself as a newborn?

I would have thought Bella's talent would be adoring Edward. hahahaha. Her strongest aspect as a human magnified a hundred times.

I'm not buying the book. I refuse to do so.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually creepy that Jacob ends up with TMNB (sorry, now I HAVE to use this name). He's in love with her mother, this is gross.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly it. I hate what Stephenie did to Jacob.
It's so unfair to him! He might not be a real person, but he was the most interesting and likeable character in the books. You do NOT make him imprint on Bella's baby, for god's sake!

TMNB... Jacob.... TMNB... Jacob...
OPPOSITE ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM. In every possible way. I'm just disgusted that somehow it's "okay" to have him imprint on Bella's baby (I'd have been happier with a normal human! not a baby. not bella's baby. OR A VAMPIRE BABY.)
Sorry, Stephenie, that's just wrong.
I am so incredibly frustrated with what she's done.

The entire book seems to be a poorly thought out fanfic.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahahaha... Yeahh.. I looked up good ol' wiki as well.

What a CACK! That is freaking hilarious.
There are way too many plots and shit, it seems. From what I could gather from the wiki article, anyway.

It really is just really bad fanfic! Oh Meyer, what have you done? Hah, and she's a Mormon. Does anybody else find the fact that she's a "devout Mormon" and wrote BD with all this sex and teen pregnancy and vampire babies hilarious? Coz I know I do!!

This makes me love wiki / Amazon even more:
Quote:

So far, however, it has received more negative reviews than positive from consumers on Amazon


Hehe. This has gone insane.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I got curious and checked out Breaking Dawn's Amazon page...

I no longer fear being killed by random Twilighters, because the Twilight fandom is imploding.

I feel kind of sorry for SM. She got too famous too quickly, so with the uber-high expectations her fans have for her books...yeah. She's probably going to curl up in a ball somewhere. Not that this should excuse the weirdness Breaking Dawn sounds like it is, but honestly, with a year to write a book as crazy long as hers, did anyone, including her, expect it to be a masterpiece?

And even though I'm not a fan of the series, I HATE how Bella is a vampire. Wasn't the point of Twilight that Bella is an "ordinary" girl? SM should've proved that she could still be extraordinary while ordinary and actually have her stay human in the end. And, so readers could get their HEA ending, Edward would become human -- which actually could've worked with the baby plot. Since the baby is a hybrid, its venom (if it has any) could've done something cool like turn vampires human if it bites them!

*Nessie bites Edward*

Edward: "Ow! Hey, I'm human now! I no longer have to be broody! Let's nuzzle, Bella!!"

Bella: "Yay!" *runs to Edward then stops* "Ew. You're not so pretty as a human."

Edward: "But I'm still Edward! Nuzzle-time!"

Bella: "No! Even MIKE is cuter than you now! I'm going to find myself another vampire!"

*Bella leaves, and Edward crashes to his knees, moaning how he wants to die*

*Nessie complies by eating him*

...okay, so maybe SM wouldn't have it turn out exactly like that. Heh.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pressure to finish the series is what screwed her over.
Or maybe Twilight and New Moon were a fluke. She's not a writer - she wasn't trained to be a writer, she just sort of happened. It doesn't surprise me at all that the series is ending like a crazed fan fiction version of itself.

although I have friends who like it so far *excuse me while I barf*
I'm just trying not to strangle her.

my mom ordered it, so when it gets here I'll read it. just so I can say that I actually did when I start condemning it and scrutinizing and proving how horrible it all is.

once I read the spoilers, I was no longer excited. Now I just need to get to August 12th when a book that will actually be good is coming out, and my summer won't be a total loss...


also Izzy, on Shakespeare, most of the time, he's not supposed to have a point. He was extremely mainstream and wrote plays to entertain the masses - jokes and social commentary they would understand. Most of them lived in dirt hovels - a little magic did them some good, no matter how foolish or unbelievable. He was the Nora Roberts of his day basically, writing a new play constantly and everybody instantly loved it. Very few of his comedies have anything worth quoting or paying attention to other than Twelfth Night (IMO anyways), but his tragedies (Macbeth, Hamlet) and the Histories (i LOVE Julius Caesar) are full of historical analysis and commentary on social justice and a lot of issues that normal people couldn't discuss, but he got away with by using metaphor. While it IS debatable whether or not Shakespeare actually wrote all of his poems and plays, he is in no way overrated. Shakespeare was the first author of the masses, the voice of the people, in a time when the monarchy was absolute. Rock on WS!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, Heather, that would have been better than Jacob imprinting on Nessie. haha. Edward dead, and Bella still a human! Whoo! I hate that she became a vampire.

I don't think Twilight and New Moon were a fluke... They seemed honest enough. BUT, she did get the whole idea from a dream, you know, so maybe when it came time to think up something on her own, she sort of... flopped.

The one year period in which Steph had to write the novel was mostly self-imposed! I'm sure her publishers would have agreed to two years. Just look at J.K. Rowling. She had a two year gap between books, and because Stephenie is extremely popular, her fans wouldn't forget about the series or anything.

Ash, you know people who like it?! Ahhhhhhhhh.
Well, it's alright. Stephenie deserves a few fans who like the book. haha.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because nobody should pay for it:



I couldnt provide a link to the community cause its friends-only
(But if you dont already have the book or just wanna bitch about it, go there, lol)
And I couldn't go to each link and copy and paste cause the little bubbles on the side always send me to a non-working link the minute that I hover over the link at all
So my gift is this image that shows you the links and all you gotta do is type them in
It sucks, but its the best I got
and its the whole book
It only takes a few seconds to load

Because like I said: nobody should have to pay for this POS
I am returning mine since I still have the reciept
Bwahahaha
^-^


EDIT:
Typed them all out
Hopefully these work

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2U6EVRKT

http://www.mediafire.com/?rfelkw7jsvt

http://www.sendspace.com/file/frdgmm

http://files.filefront.com/Breaking+Dawnpdf/;11344

http://rapidshare.com/files/134591200/Breaking_Dawn.pdf.html

http://www.badongo.com/file/10689148

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4326575
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodness, what a tiny file! haha. I almost feel sorry for Stephenie, but then I remember that Jacob imprinted on Bella's baby.

So it's all good.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so...in the Irish clan, there is a vampire named Maggie.
and her gift is to know when someone is telling the truth or not.
sound creepily familiar? like some other Maggie who knows a liar when she hears one?

that REALLY weirded me out when I read that.


other than that, Renesme bothers me, I had how Jacob is with her, but somehow I still enjoy Edward. He's the most real of them all in this book. I FEEL for him in a way that I don't for any of the others.
and there's so much sex!

but I'm not completely hating it, although I wish it had either been broken into two books, or ended just slightly differently.

only 130 more pages to go...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's face it; Stephenie Meyer doesn't really care what fans think - this book proves it all. She's probably going all, "hahaha, I screwed over those obsessive fangirls of mine," and sliding down mountains of cash.

Unfortunately for her, the new slogan for this book is: "don't burn it, return it."

I guess Shakespeare isn't exactly over-rated... but I don't know, I find his plays boring. I've done Macbeth, A Midsummer Nights Dream, Twelfth Night... back then they must have been amazing, definitely, but today, I don't know.

JK Rowling's characters are better-written. A LOT better-written. Plus, she was consistent with them and didn't give them weird or OOC dialogue the way Stephenie does. Bella sucks, the coolest thing she's probably ever done was watch a re-run of The Simpsons.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha... that download took about five seconds. Brilliant. Because nobody *should* have to pay for that. I wonder how many bookstores are gonna be getting BD returned?

I feel kind of sorry for Meyer. If this is the way all her fans (or most, anyway) are going to react after all their love and addiction from the first three.... It's gonna be a bit of a shock, methinks. Then again, Renesme? Renesme Carlie? Jacob? Imprint? Edward? Sex? STEALING CHARACTERS FROM ASH?!

Cha. No wonder fans are returning the book.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IN DEFENSE OF BREAKING DAWN:

yea that's right. I said it.

First, if you all think how Stephenie ended the series was stupid/out of canon, how would you have ended it then? There's all this criticism and yet NO ONE has offered a so-called logical alternative.

There were things in this last book that we all knew were going to happen:
Bella and Edward were going to get married and have some sort of sex.
Jake needed to find love.
Something needed to occur to make the alliance between the Cullens and the wolves unshakeable.
Bella would become a vampire.
The Volturri would attack at some point.

All of those things happened. They HAD to happen.

Yes, the sex stuff was kind of boring, but I feel the way both Bella and Edward acted before the first time was very real. Neither of them had experienced it before, and neither one knew what to expect. So Bella got a little sex-crazed for a minute there, but who wouldn't when you finally get to have it in the closest thing to a worry-free sexual relationship?

Also, following Stephenie's logic, Bella getting pregnant is not that strange. She borrowed from mythology and I actually believe she stuck to the world she created. Her vampires were not like those of myth, this is true, but that doesn't mean some myths didn't originate from them. The succubus/incubus explanation she used just FIT. Those stories have been around for hundreds, if not over a thousand, years. So the vampires themselves couldn't have babies, the women were frozen and unchanging, but the men didn't have to do any changing to get someone pregnant. Also, when before EVER had this coven heard of a vampire having sex with a human? This is a book written from a first-person perspective...no one in this book is all-knowing. They are learning things along with us sometimes, and this was one of those cases.

Do I think it was disgusting? Yes. Do I think reading about the birth was one of the grosser things I've read in my life, particularly Edward using his teeth to get the baby out? HELL YES. Was it illogical in Meyer's world? No.

Renesmee has no personality, except when she's with Jake. I don't understand why everyone loves her, other than it might be one of her gifts. She bothers me. I would rather she had died. Jake wasn't even Jake when he was with her. After being in his head for so long, and then seeing him through Bella's eyes, I no longer felt connected to him. When his world snapped in order to be connected to TMNB, it snapped him away from everyone else. His love for Bella changed, that was convenient but a lie - THIS was a contradiction in Stephenie's world.

When Sam Imprinted on Emily, he still loved Leah in a romantic way, just one that faded. Jake would still love Bella like that, but it would fade, especially quickly since he loved her daughter. Bella's reaction to this news was PERFECT. I would have killed him. I think a little bit of it was jealousy, even if Stephenie didn't write it that way.

Sidenote, love Leah and Jacob.

So Jake Imprints on TMNB, and therefore the Cullens are safe from the wolves and vice versa. Unbreakable alliance. Neither would do anything that would harm TMNB.

Next point, just like I wanted, Bella became a vampire to save her life. She was DYING. In fact, I think she was DEAD. I didn't really care if Bella became a vampire or not, I just didn't want it to be murder. I didn't want that on their rather clean consciences. Like Bella said to Jake, Carlisle had always saved people, not killed them. Bella was dying, Edward saved her. He didn't just take her life away. She'd already lost it.

Now, the Volturri. Hmmm...they were annoying. I wish there had been some sort of actual fight and then a pause with all the talking. This was probably my least favorite part of the book, except when Edward realizes Bella kept a secret from him. I liked his shock and horror. The best thing I can say about this part is that at least crap was resolved. Other than that this part = lame.

Bella's power...exactly what I thought it was going to be since Twilight. It made sense.


This "felt" like Twilight, for all its random weirdness.
I was particularly struck by Jacob's description of Edward as the burning man. I could so clearly and painfully imagine that horror and sadness. Not only was Edward going to lose the person he loved most in the world, he felt it was his fault. He was burning, every part of him was in tortured pain, and he felt he deserved it. That was the most haunting thing Stephenie Meyer has ever, or will ever, write.


For being a long book, I felt like the wrong things were explored sometimes. I wanted more to the wedding. I wanted Bella to have a little bit more trouble as a newborn, maybe staying away from Charlie or something. I can understand why maternal instinct would override feeding instinct when it came to Renesmee, especially because she didn't smell human, but after her powerful need for those hikers, it should have been more of a struggle with Charlie. I could see maybe if she managed to control her body, but I wish there had been more of a struggle in her mind, more of her using MIND OVER MATTER and understanding Edward's suffering. That never came. While she "saw" Edward and experienced new parts of him, I think that a chance for her to really understand him was missed.


The ending was a happy fairytale ending. Did you expect anyting less from this? Because I didn't. Bella was going to end up happily ever after with Edward and vampireness and Jake still as her best friend. I knew that was coming. I expected there to be a battle and some lives lost for the wolves and the vampires, but then again, Stephenie wouldn't do something that real and morbid. For as repulsed and scared as I was at first, this was exactly what should have happened. I don't necessarily like it, but whatever.


I will say again, I loved Edward in this. Not in the obsessive way I did after Twilight, but as a character. I agree that some of the others are not well-developed, but I felt for Edward in this one in a way I didn't before. I commiserated with him, maybe even understood him. He was not perfect and that made it so much better. He was the only character that still felt like himself. Him and Emmett and Charlie anyways. Everyone else was weird. If, for all its weirdness, the story made sense in the world, I felt the characters all acted unnaturally. Particularly Rosalie, once the baby was born. I expected her to be more psycho and possessive.

AND, Stephenie always says her human characters don't get enough love, and yet she leaves them out completely. Hrmph.



Anyways, I didn't hate it. I think seeing Jacob's perspective, and then the very very end of the book did that for me.

I won't lie, the very end made me a little teary.

He saw her mind. He saw himself through her eyes. That was absolutely beautiful, and the absolute perfect ending. I've been waiting for that. Waiting for him to see her mind. The perfect ending.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I was reading the book last night, I thought this was coming. haha. I don't agree with you, though, but because I've read the entire book now, there are a few points I've since softened up on.

When the plot is laid out for you like it is in Wikipedia, it seems a little worse than it is in the book. In Breaking Dawn itself, you get Stephenie's style showing through and... it softens the effect of some things.
But I still don't like it.


Bella and Edward getting married and having sex? Well, yes, they were going to get married and I was fine with it. But they were only going to try to have sex... once (it seemed to be implied; Edward wouldn't take more risks). But come on, did you seriously find Edward and Bella having sex multiple times believable? And something that should be offered in the defence of Breaking Dawn?

Jake needed to find love, BUT NOT WITH BELLA'S BABY. I still feel cheated by this. If he'd fallen humanly in love with Leah it would have been better!
...I really didn't want him to fall in love with TMNB. It was so trite and convenient. "Oh look, Jacob's in love with Bella. Why don't we just have him imprint on her baby, so that means they can be close and meanwhile, Jake won't feel heartbroken at seeing Bella and Edward together. Whoo!"
I applauded Stephenie for Eclipse, because she showed that life is full of choices, and there's going to be a lt of hard ones. You're going to hurt people you love, but sometimes, it's just inevitable.
And then she goes and makes Jacob imprint on TMNB. *snort* Yeah, Bella REALLY had to make a difficult choice there. It must have hurt Jacob SO much that she was turned into a vampire.

That leads me to Bella becoming a vampire. Oh yeah.
Again, it was so EASY.
"Look, guys, Bella is able to keep quiet so she doesn't cause Edward pain! And her turning only lasts 2 days! Oh, also, when she wakes up she's remarkably in control of herself! Just like a centuries old vampire! Plus, Charlie isn't going to get hurt in all this! Aren't we clever!"
I didn't want Bella to be turned into a vampire, but if there was NO choice and she was dying, I'd want it to be more realistic. It's so convenient that she bore it easily, and then had these extra benefits as a newborn.

TMNB is creepy. I didn't realise when she was able to understand things and feel a sense of guilt or whatever. So when she said, "It's all my fault" the first time around, I was CREEPED OUT.

And Jake. I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am. His love for Bella is conveniently... dissipated. He imprints on the freaking baby, and suddenly, everything's alright. He no longer shows the part of his personality that make me love him, and instead wanders around happily protecting TMNB. Jake changed when he imprinted on her. He might have been the same person underneath, but suddenly, everything was so darn happy, and... dare I say it again?... convenient.

I did love Leah and Jacob, though.
Bella's power was what I'd thought it would be.

I didn't like Edward's character before the turning, but afterwards, he FINALLY brightened up. Thank god. I was getting sick of the moaning and groaning. I couldn't even sympathise with his situation before, because I was just so sick of his self-hatred.

The Volturi subplot? *snort* Lame.

Also, I forgot to mention this before, but how unrealistic was Bella's reaction to finding out she's pregnant? "Oh, I LOVE THIS BABY!!!" She's 18, and she's just found out she's pregnant with a vampire's baby.
Yeah... not realistic.

--

All in all, I didn't like the book. Stephenie had objectives, but she didn't need to do crazy shit to get there!

If I had to describe the book in one word, it would be--you guessed it--CONVENIENT.
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bagellurve
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to side with Ammy
But since I cant even make myself read the whole book you can feel free to disreguard my opinion completely

I am also just ready for the buzz on Breaking Dawn to end
*shrug*
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this book.. A lot and some ways i see things differently than how alot of you guys are...

I would get into it right now but not a good time for me.. (very stressed right now.. need sleep ect.. )


I just want to say thanks to Ash.. I felt very alone with being pro Breaking Dawn and was actually afraid to speak up... yeah the all powerful ruler afraid..
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The younger fans (aged around 10) - who basically make up the fanbase - don't need to read about a sex-crazed Bella. Stephenie's extremely irresponsible.

I'm NEVER going to read this book, so I'm the same as Meg.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't disagree with anything you said Ammy - Breaking Dawn is convenient...but there really wasn't a good way to end this.

and the Jacob/TMNB thing is really my biggest problem with the book. I hated that. but I didn't want Jacob/Leah either because them being friends is much more powerful. That is the part where I wish there was a better resolution.

somehow though, the mood of it felt true to story for me, so I can't say I hated it. I might never read it again, it's not my favorite, and its not great, but I didn't hate it.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought it was going to end where Bella and Edward were married - then they were all gooey lovey dovey (minus the sex and baby, cause its just akward for me on both counts >.<)
And then Edward is about to change her but she backs out
But he doesnt mind cause that is what he wanted all along (remember him not wanting to change her?)
And so the pack and the Cullens aren't at each others throats due to Bella being bitten/killed/etc
And now they team up instead to fight the Volturi
Then we have a human Bella married to a vampire Edward and Jacob imprints on someone else (anyone else but Bella's baby >.<)
So the worst thing that happens?
Bella dies like a normal human with the old lady scenario from the beginning of Eclipse (is that the right book? I forget @.@)

Just the way that it ended (and my friend telling me about the creepy growing-up of the baby and how Bella is completely blissful now that she is a vampire and looks down on humans now) makes me so unhappy
Again: I have not read the book and I am going on hear-say
But my friend was trying to defend the book (cause she is on the pro-BD side with Ash and Suz) but even she thought that Bella was being selfish and all of a sudden "Oh my God I love my baby, I love being a vampire, and sex is great"
She didn't quite put it like that, but that is the jist of it

So yeah
I wished it ended like I stated above
And I wish Stephenie Meyer had given Bella's humanity a little more thought (especially what kind of message this book is giving US as humans - like we are nice, but her creations are SOOO much better and we will only see the world the best it can be, be the most beautiful that we can ever hope to be, and fall in love with the perfect person IF we are not human and instead some supernatural being) :/
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I did NOT want Jacob/Leah either!!! I like them better this way.
But if that HAD happened, and it had been a slow growing human love, then I would have been fine with it. Just... not... Renesmee. Anyone but her.

I don't hate the book. I hate a lot of the plot turns in it. Otherwise, I just really dislike it. I don't think I could ever bring myself to "hate" a book. Apart from that, I've already stated how I feel about the book (god. Jacob and TMNB will never get any better for me. I truly hate the thought of it), so I won't rehash anything I've previously stated.

And Meg, I actually wouldn't have had a huge problem with that plot. I would wish there was a way for Bella to stay young and live forever with Edward, but I would... accept it, with time. Although... nah, I really can't say how I'd feel, because there seems to be no reality but that of Breaking Dawn anymore. I can't really form a link between Twilight and the events of BD. It's weird.

There's also the message of, "Oh hi girls, you know what you could do in your life? When you're 18, you could get married and have a baby in the same year. You could also give up your humanity! If you had any human ties, it'll all work out just fine anyway, because your family would understand completely. No sweat."
Because everyone knows getting married at 18 is going to be easy. And your pregnancy will be easy if you have a normal baby, and not a TMNB. You'd also have a lot of sex with a vampire. And your family would not be hurt in all this. Plus, of COURSE you'd have the money to live comfortably for the rest of your life! How could you possibly think otherwise?

Taking out the supernatural stuff, it sounds rather like a bad lesson to be teaching adoring pre-teen and teen fans who form a sizeable part of your fanbase. Even if Stephenie didn't want to teach a "lesson", she's got the responsibility to write something appropriate for most fans.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that Bella only stayed human so she could get it on with Edward, disgusts me. It just shows how truly shallow she is. What if during having sex, Edward got all rabid and attacked her? Oh well, at least she got some Edward. Pathetic.

And yep, the message she's sending is horrible. But it's not just this book, ALL her books have been like this:

In Twilight she teaches the young girls that "it's okay to give up your entire life for your man, you can give up all ambitions, goals, hopes and dreams for your boyfriend. It's definitely right to put your life at risk tob e with your man. Whatever your boyfriend says - you do. He always knows best and more than you."

Plus, the way Bella treats Jacob throughout the entire book is unacceptable. From manipulating him in Twilight to the messed-up "run away with TMNB" plot in Breaking Dawn, it's all just horribly wrong. If you treat anyone in real-life the way Bella trod on Jacob, it won't turn out right.

This was one series that shouldn't have had a 100% happy-ending. Bella made to many mistakes and stuffed-up WAY too many times for Stephenie to do what she did. Cop-out, cop-out, cop-out...

And Ammy got Breaking Dawn 100% right. The whole "you can screw up your life in every possible way and every single thing will turn out right" is BS.

...How can you love a baby when it almost killed you, grew up incredibly fast and took off with your lover?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay so I still haven't really read it. I'm up to Chapter 5 or 6 or something. But from what I've heard / read, I still don't like it.

I agree with Ammy on the whole convenience issue. Everything Meyer wrote was so convenient! Then again, she is still, technically, new at this whole writing thing. I guess we gotta give her a little break. Plus all the pressure she must have been under.

There were just so many other options she could have taken. Well, maybe not that many, but still others! Like with Jacob. Imprinting on Renesme (sorry, but I will never get over the shitness of that name). Imprinting in general... Isn't it supposed to be some really rare occurance that hardly ever happens? I'm not too sure, I can't quite remember as Eclipse was a while ago. Or New Moon.. Whichever book it was explained in.

From what I remember, Sam's imprinting was one of the first the pack had heard of, wasn't it? So why did Jake have to Imprint? I guess... That would kind of be the only Jake would accept another girl in his life. (Unless Meyer turned him GAY! ... hehe...) And she obviously wanted a happy ending for every character. I know Jake got a really raw deal throughout the entire series, but not everything works out so perfectly in life. Would it have truly been so bad if he hadn't found somebody else besides Bella? In these books, anyway. We could use our imaginations when BD ended and just imagined what could have happened afterwards.

Leah never found anybody else, did she? Oh god.. If she did.. Then Meyer really did just make everyone have a happy ending.

Sure, its a supernatural-themed story with werewolves and vampires, but its set in today's society with themes of today. Main point of life is: it isn't fair. Nothing really works out that perfectly. I guess its just annoying that Meyer made BD so unbelievable with the happiness.

I don't think Meg's ending is really canon either... Bella would never back out. Thats the entire point of the series. She and Edward are so obsessively in love with each other. See: New Moon.

I don't know what another option could have been. I guess Bella dying then beeing changed into a vampire is what I expected, ever since Twilight. That just seemed the only way that the Cullen's would change her, even if Edward promised her otherwise.

Oh, and the sex. There was just too much. I understand that it was a theme in all of this... But it did seem quite unlike Edward to allow it to happen so many times, after all his protectiveness of Bella.

Anyway... Yeh. Just some of my opinion based off what others have said. Haha, I know, what a thorough basis for an opinion!

Hmm.. Maybe I should give it a little slack...

But then I remember Renesme. I'm sorry, but WTF?! (and thats only in reference to the name of TMNB!)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Izzy wrote:
Plus, the way Bella treats Jacob throughout the entire book is unacceptable. From manipulating him in Twilight to the messed-up "run away with TMNB" plot in Breaking Dawn, it's all just horribly wrong. If you treat anyone in real-life the way Bella trod on Jacob, it won't turn out right.




That's totally untrue. Jacob was obsessively in love with Bella, and he would do anything for her, even knowing that it hurt him. I had a friend like that, who I know that I hurt, and it didn't matter to him. The weirder thing is that we DID get a happy ending. Although he did end up with a girl who has the same name, but whatever.

And Bella told Jacob to run away with TMNB for a lot of reasons that make perfect sense, even if you hated it. Jacob LOVED TMNB as gross as that it is, so he would want her protected. Bella could trust him with her child's life (think about Bella as a legit mother for a second and it will make sense). Also, Bella loved Jacob too, and getting him away from this fight would make him safer. Then the two people she loved that were not indestructable would be safe. She could trust them to take care of each other. Some part of their lives needed to survive, and Jake and TMNB would be it.


I try to think of other things for TMNB to stand for that make sense. My current favorite is: The Mutilatingly Named Baby.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

feellikethenight wrote:
Izzy wrote:
Plus, the way Bella treats Jacob throughout the entire book is unacceptable. From manipulating him in Twilight to the messed-up "run away with TMNB" plot in Breaking Dawn, it's all just horribly wrong. If you treat anyone in real-life the way Bella trod on Jacob, it won't turn out right.




That's totally untrue. Jacob was obsessively in love with Bella, and he would do anything for her, even knowing that it hurt him. I had a friend like that, who I know that I hurt, and it didn't matter to him. The weirder thing is that we DID get a happy ending. Although he did end up with a girl who has the same name, but whatever.

And Bella told Jacob to run away with TMNB for a lot of reasons that make perfect sense, even if you hated it. Jacob LOVED TMNB as gross as that it is, so he would want her protected. Bella could trust him with her child's life (think about Bella as a legit mother for a second and it will make sense). Also, Bella loved Jacob too, and getting him away from this fight would make him safer. Then the two people she loved that were not indestructable would be safe. She could trust them to take care of each other. Some part of their lives needed to survive, and Jake and TMNB would be it.


Well, yeah, I haven't read the book - and I said never will - so I don't have any actual proof about the TMNB plot... hmm.


Quote:
I try to think of other things for TMNB to stand for that make sense. My current favorite is: The Mutilatingly Named Baby.


hahaha, nice!
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Helyn-la
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. I have a lot to say, but first off::
Damn guys! What did Stephenie ever do to you?!?

I get that the ending was a bit TOO happy, but it wasn't nearly as bad as you're saying.

I was thinking that it could end something like this::
Edward and Bella die, as Alice predicted, and then Steph shows us all her religous side and they meet up again in heaven, where Edward can hear Bella's thoughts.
Jake and Nessie run away, where thay live happily ever after, though Nessie always misses her parents. Jake misses Bella, but is too happy with Renesmee to really care.
The rest of the Cullens are sad, but eventually get over it, and go on with their lives. Alice and Jasper return. Happy, but not too happy. The perfect ending.




Second off::
TMNB? What the hell?

I liked Renesmee! she's sweet, just like Bella says! It's really not all that bad that Jake [who I never really liked, but am starting to since finnishing BD] likes her too. At least he's happy, you know? Would you rather he be sad through the entire book? Bad ending, always wanting Bella, but never being able to have her? Come on guys, have a ♥!



♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my God sorry I cop out on you guys like this and don't post and come back and think everything can be magically okay. i have no excuses, i am guilty. but i want to say what I thought about BD cause I been reading all two pages of what you guys thing.

I'm so not pro BD.

First, Helyn-la idk how you say you began to like the Jacob after Jacob imprinted on renesmee. That was when he lost his entire personality to me. He and the werewolves had been the only vibrant, real characters through the entire serious that it sucked so bad when he turned into a mindless person who sat on the cullen's couch all day. I hardly knew he was there untill Bella made an aside to him snoring loudly beside her most of the time. He was just thin as paper then like all the other twilight characters that have basic mary-sue appeal.

I really thought the whole book was just a bad fanfiction. I read what Ash said about there was no other way to end the book, but I honestly was hoping Bella and Edward would die. Idk i figured there would be some fight with the volturi and they would go down dying. The whole serious just had an entire romeo and juliet star crossed lovers theme that there seemed no other ending in my head.

i have no words for the bella pregnancy. I remember reading spoilers in the interwebzzz before the book came out and just being like "wtf, you have no life but to sit around and come up with the most random shit and say it spoilers?"

But then I was like "OMGG TRUUEEE?!?!?! FAIL SM THERE IS NO RECOVERY" cause I decided to buy it when we were at walmart gettin my grandma's meds. I flipped through it that day and read all the spoilers beforehand because I cannot wait for anything..and didn't get to read till two days later cause I went to see the dark knight again...but blah anyways.

Jacob was so cute at the wedding and I found Seth adorable. idk his cute little adoration for edward was kinda nice. it crossed the edge a few times in jacob's pov and he wasn't even mentioned in bellas cause she looked down to anything not vampires.

I found it crazy how edward was suddenly so perfectly okay with having sex... did they have sex in the water? cause I remember edward saying something about how the warm water may make it easier...and not hurt bella as much and i had a tmi moment. And then changing her. it was her decision in the first place that he stood against and all of sudden she was like "i think i'll go to dartmouth for a semester then maybe become a vamp." and edward had become some sex crazed maniac and was like "I WANT you UNBREAKABLE NAOOO."

it left me wondering some questions about how exactly the act was committed that i doubt would be a good idea to post here xD

it was just all a bad dream that seemed impossible to be connected with the other books. I can barely even remember what happened in eclipse though... only the fight at the end, somewhere in there all the characters became perfect fanfic mary sues. EXCEPT JACOB BUT HE IMPRINTED ON like a 4 month old

Gah i remember buying twilight in '06 after meg convinced me and thinkin it was so good.

even though it was so random, the volturi sub plot all the vamps were cool. I liked Zafrina [however you spell] and the romanian vamps were all cool like "if fight breaks out we b poppin sum squatz upside dem italians." and i was hoping a fight did break out. because all that talking got so boringggg

it was like

aro: says something mildly important [smiles coldly]
cauis: yells at aro, glares at pplz
cullen & good people: nerves clench
marcus: looks bored

45 minutes later

aro: says something mildly important [smiles coldly]
cauis: yells at aro, glares at pplz
cullen & good people: nerves clench
marcus: looks bored


I like Garett. I really did, he was... idk I kept wanting to read more about him even though he was some random nomadic vampire. he and that girl's kates relationship happened fast. I guess all those shocks turned him on or somethng. idk.

i'll probably come back and edit this after i realize how stupid i sound xD

I wanted to do this for breaking dawn. i really did thisss
even if the facts weren't true it be funny as hell to see their facesss
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crys wrote:
First, Helyn-la idk how you say you began to like the Jacob after Jacob imprinted on renesmee. That was when he lost his entire personality to me.


I didn't like his old personality. Before he was always being rude to Edward [and Rosalie, but that was funny...] and now for me he's just like this nice guy who's always hangin' around Bella 'cause he thinks her baby's cute. It's kinda' sweet.

I can see how the obsessive Jake fans would be angry, but it's really not that weird... It's not like he wants to marry her *shudders*. Of course, he might when their the same age 0.- hehe.

No one thought it weird that Quil imprinted on Claire. Is it 'cause Nessie's half Vampire? *headshakes* All this is just beond me... I think she's cute. I really see nothing wrong with her.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ending of that sucked. I did not like how "perfect" everything was. Bella perfected using her power, Renesme is safe, Jacob is in love, Bella and Edward can be together forever, the Cullen family is safe, the Vultori are wrong, nobody dies.
Pch.
I was kinda hoping for something more like the ending to Harry Potter, where everything works out okay, but you do have your losses character-wise. That was my main complaint with the book, other then the island sex fantasy chapters. Personally, I found Renesme cute, how she could communicate with touching people and how she made everyone love her. Though as a fetus that thing was hella creepy. No other way to put it.

The Jacob chapters made me happy :] The titles of the chapters made me laugh, and I loved how very Jacob-y the whole thing was. Everything was simplistic (without being overly dumb), and his point of view over everything wasn't colored by some maddening love like Bella's view on life. I was sad he imprinted on the baby - it was just too perfect to have him in that position for moving the plot along.

And a final note, I did not like how Bella thought about Alice after she left. I found that the phrases Meyer used whenever Bella talked about her were overly and stupidly foreshadowing of stuff. More then once Bell was just like
"oh, Alice left, I guess she never was really connected to the family, I can't blame her for saving herself and it was nice of her to give us a hint on how to save ourselves."
Yeah right. Alice and Jasper are part of the family obviously. The first time Bella said that all I could think of was that it was setting up Bella to be totally shocked when Alice returns for the impending fight (that didn't happen ...). And look, I was right. Oh Joy.

I've read worse books, but Breaking Dawn is not at all on my list of favorites at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely agree about the Alice thing...it's like in HP when no one got that Dumbledore told Snape to kill him. Alice left because it made everyone safer, not to save herself...if that makes sense.

and I also second your wanting the ending to be like HP. that's what I was expecting too. It was so anticlimactic when they didn't even FIGHT the Volturri at all. because Bella was so powerful she could protect them all, no matter what. there should have been some kind of showdown.

a friend of mine thinks that now SM is going to write about Jake and Reneesme, which would mean to me that once again the Volturri are going to come back, because there's no bigger enemy than them in her world. or delve into the other half-vamps world. I wouldn't mind it as long as Jake gets his personality back.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another series with TMNB and Jake? Eh. I dunno.. I think maybe its time just to rest it? Haha, I keep calling her TMNB because I always spell her freaking name wrong! TMNB is just so much easier and ... convenient! [hehe i'm funny]

Maybe in the future, in [quite] a few years maybe go back to it... But.. right now, I feel its just time to end it. It was such a fairytale ending anyway. Thats the end. Finite. Just my opinion, anyway.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SM's not cut out to be a writer and it's sort of time for her to stop with this. She got lucky... and I can't see it happening again with another series.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree. I think Meyer is definately a writer [for proof, read The Host] who just happens to like when everything works out.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you read The Host?

I did.. and it took me around three months to finish it. (and that's a lot considering it only took me just a little over a day to read Breaking Dawn)

For a book that is 600+ pages I only found around 250 of those pages to be entertaining, the rest of if was a very boring and dry. I contemplated many times on just giving up but I continued to read.. and then eventually it became mildly interesting.

It was very predictable and like BD Stephenine uses almost too much foreshadowing, the only part that I found to be surprising was the last few pages of the last chapter.
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Helyn-la
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Joined: 29 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

really? I thought it was really good. but this is off topic... and it's raining really hard so I'm gonna go outside.
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feellikethenight
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Location: travelling the world with Lil

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so I had the bad luck of stumbling upon the "Caught Up In You" video that had Taylor Lautner in it today...and man...that Cassi Thomson chick would make a perfect Renesme. it creeped me out.
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Izzy_The_Goddess
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helyn-la wrote:
I disagree. I think Meyer is definately a writer [for proof, read The Host] who just happens to like when everything works out.


Hm... I dunno. For me, I think it's more than her liking when things work out.I finally gave in and read a bit of Breaking Dawn in the bookstore today, I just wanted to see if it was as bad as everybody was saying. The scene where Bella gets all angry about Jacob naming her kid "Nessi"... was really badly written (and that wasn't the only one):

"Aw, come on Bells! Nessi likes me too."

"YOU NAMED MY KID AFTER THE LOCH NESS MONSTER?"

I lunged for his throat.


(roughly)
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Ammy
Edward's Secret Lover


Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Location: over there! haha, tricked you, fools

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That reminds me... Did I ever mention the girl at work who I spoiled part of BD for before it came out? It always amuses me how incredibly stupid she is (I know, I know Rolling Eyes ) and one day I found myself having to help her out in Lay-By. So we were standing there trying to look busy (one of our managers is a total bitch. you always have to be doing work in her presence, no matter what. if you're free for even a minute, she makes you fold clothes. needless to say, I don't like her...). The conversation somehow turned to Breaking Dawn and I mentioned that I'd read the book already. She was all, "Oh my God! no way! what happens? no wait, don't tell me! I don't want to know!" PAUSE. "So what does happen?"
Me: "Jacob. Imprints on. Bella's. Baby." -disgusted-

And do you want to know what she did? I feel like bashing my head against a wall even thinking about it, but yeah. She squealed really loudly and then went, "Oh my God! THAT'S SO GOOD!!!"

Head. Desk.
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Izzy_The_Goddess
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My cousin loved the idea as well.
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